7. Christianity.  Mythicist - Atwill  3. K thru L

3. K.  Mythicist Viewpoint

The Mythicist position was introduced in the section on Judaism  To the sun worship and astrological aspects I'll add some new information, particularly as it affects Christianity.  Michael Tasarion in Astro-Theology 101  makes the point that the year in Egyptian astrology begins in Virgo, or the virgin, where the sun rises. The Egyptian Sphinx combines the head of the Virgin with the body of the lion, the symbol for Leo.  Leo is the end of the year so the whole zodiac is represented within the sphinx.   The Virgin Mary's head always has a halo around it, signifying the rising sun. The images of Christ are the same, with rays or various coronas in paintings depicting the sun around him, Christ  being the 'light of the world.'  Tasarion describes in depth the Equinox Point where the Celestial Equator, a belt around the Earth, crosses the Elliptical Belt, a vertical belt, where you have the two  equinox and the two solstice forming an astrological cross.  Flags having crosses in them actually represent the meeting point between these two belts circling the globe.  The stars represent the heavens.  Interestingly, Tasarion claims Constantinople chose the cross with Christ on it for a symbol of Christianity, but it wasn't used until the 6th century AD or even into the 8th century.   

In the video 'The Son of God is the Sun of God' DM Murdoch describes the winter solstice where the sun seems to almost die and disappear around the 22nd of December and rise on the 25th of the same.   In the Gospels Jesus was crucified, descended to hell for three days, and ascended to heaven all during the same days.   Osiris descends too into the dark as do many savior Gods to rise again.  It does almost seem as if the stories are made to fit the astrological patterns.  Tasarion actually believes the authors of the Bible meant for it to be an allegory for different astrological cycles rather than actual biographies for real individuals. The patriarchs of the Bible he claims symbolize alignments and patterns of the zodiac. 

The zodiac belt began in Virgo and was called the girdle of Isis (the Virgin Goddess), or another version of Mary.  Isis' son was Horus and Mary's son was Jesus.  Interestingly, Tasarion says the word Horizon  (the zone of Horus) came from Horus along with the word 'hours.'  Three great Egyptian gods hold a Tau (cross) representing life and immortality according to Joseph A. Seiss.  Jesus was also a bright star at 12 years of age, 12 being the highest point of the sun. He dies at 33.  Each sign is 30 degrees but to completely leave it takes 33 days.  The Freemasons highest level is the 33rd degree. 

Tasarion claims the end of prayers 'Amen' derives from the Egyptian Sun-God Amen-Ra and the Jewish word for God 'Adonai also comes from the Egyptian 'Atom.'  The name Lazuras he sees as coming from the Indian word for sun 'Asurya,' which is also the old name for Osiris.    Raising your arms to God seen in Egyptian statues was called 'Ka.'  The name Christ itself is rooted in the Egyptian word 'Karast' or 'made flesh' or 'anointed with oil.' All these connections between the Egyptian and Christian culture should perk the curiosity.  

Just a brief note here.   Keep in mind on this earth there are just so many ways the roots of words can derive and form from basic sounds and letters and there are just so many basic geometrical shapes and all have some relationship to one another.  I am not discounting or upholding what is being discussed but trying to keep it all in perspective.   

Back to some points of interest.  The video 'The son of God is the Sun of God' constructs a cohesive argument for Mythicism.  I'll mention a few salient easy to grasp links of Christianity to astrology.  Judas's 30 pieces of silver for his betrayal of Jesus falls in line with the 30 days of the moon cycle.  12 is a magic number in both, as Jesus is depicted with 12 disciples also representing the 12 signs of the zodiac.  The cross of the zodiac is a cross with a circle (symbolizing the sun) over the middle. In paintings Jesus' head replaces the circle and he becomes the sun.  Another interesting note is that Moses was part of the age of the Ram, and when the Jews built the Golden Bull he was opposed to that because it was going back to a previous age.  Jesus was part of the age of Pisces, hence his befriending of two fisherman and the  symbol of the fish and numerous aquatic metaphors. We often see the fish symbol on back of many cars which is an astrological fish sign.  Indeed, Jesus was born at the beginning of the Pisces age.  A man with a pitcher of water will greet and he will mark the age of Aquarius as foretold by Jesus.  Murdock states the word 'world' actually is mistranslated and should be aeon or age.  “I will be with you even to the end of the aeon,' is a correct reading of Matthew 28:20, signifying not the end of the world but of an age.

There is a real parallel with the Joseph of the 'Old Testament' and Jesus.  Both had a miracle birth, Joseph had 12 brothers and Jesus 12 disciples, both were sold for 20 pieces.  'Judah suggests the selling of  Joseph, 'Judas' for Jesus, and both began their work at age 30.  Mere coincidence?  The conclusion of this video is that Jesus was a solar deity of a Christian sect, the Gnostics, and was a mythical figure.  It claims the Romans tried to give him a real history for political reasons.  Constantine in 325 AD proclaimed Christian doctrines and so began Vatican rule for over a millennium.  Myths that originated from deeds that contained universal themes and or originated in the heavens became doctrines used for control.  As stated this is the video's thesis.  Again I'm just presenting information to think about, not taking a position.

There are numerous writings on Mythicism which draw parallels between various cultures' deities and Jesus.  Buddha of India, Mithra of Persia, Dionysus of Greece previously discussed, Prometheus of the same, Thor of the Gauls, Indra of Tibet, and Osiris and Orus of Egypt are all part of a list that goes on and on.  Kersey Graves in 'The world's sixteen crucified Saviors' describes the lineage from RA, Egypt's first divine ruler appointed by the God of creation, P'tah.  P'tah appointed Osiris and Beth to divide the kingdom but they warred and Osiris was resurrected after being killed and his son Horus, whose mother was Isis, took over.  

Certain Mythicists see the Christian religion as emerging from the Egyptian religion or at least borrowing from it.   Graves compares Horus and Jesus.  Below are a few excerpts from his list.

Horus and the Father are one.
Jesus says, “I and My Father are one.  He that seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me.”

Horus was the light of the world, the light that is represented by the symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
Jesus is made to declare that He is the light of the world.

Horus was the way, the truth, the life by name and in person.
Jesus is made to assert that he is the way, the truth, and the life.

Horus was the plant, the shoot, the nazar.
Jesus is made to say “I am the true vine.”

He goes on to share some common motifs.  Here are some.
Horus was baptized with water by Anup.  Jesus was Baptized with water by John.
Horus was born in Annu, the place of bread.  Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
Horus as the Lamb.  Jesus as the Lamb.
Horus as the Lion.  Jesus as the Lion.
Horus identified with the Tat or Cross.  Jesus identified with the Cross.
Horus the Krst.  Jesus the Christ.
Horus carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep.  Jesus spirited away by Satan into an exceedingly high mountain.
Set and Horus contending on the Mount.  Jesus and Satan contending on the Mount.
The Star as the announcer of the child Horus.  The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
Horus the afflicted one.  Jesus the afflicted one.
Horus as the type of life eternal.  Jesus the type of eternal life.
Twelve followers of Horus as the Har-Khutti.  Twelve followers of Jesus as the twelve disciples.
Horus the Morning Star.  Jesus the Morning Star.
Horus who gives the Morning Star to his followers.  Jesus who gives the Morning Star to his followers.
The name of Ra on the head of the deceased.  The name of the Father written on the forehead.

Here is a list from Churchward's 'Book of Religion' published in 1924 on parallels between Krishna and Christ.

Both are held to be really god incarnate.
Both were incarnated and born of a woman.
The mother in each case was a holy virgin.
The father of each was a carpenter.
Both were of royal decent.
Each had the title of “Savior.”
Both were “without sin.”
Both were crucified.
Both were crucified between two thieves.
Each taught of a great and final day of judgment.

There are other 'leaders' who also share these similarities.  

 I must reiterate I am considering and looking at all things.  Following is a Joseph Campbell sketch of what happened.

"So there grew, during those first centuries of Christianity, a whole literature of the Hermetic sort in which the symbols, interpreted in the orthodox Christian tradition as historical, were being read in a proper mythological sense. And these then began to link the Christian myth to pagan analogues. The Gnostics, for instance, were in that boat. But the orthodox Christians insisted on the historicity of all these events."

3. L.  Joseph Atwill's original take


Often I come to a subject from a way out point of view and work my way back to the mainstream, which is somewhat backwards.  The different entry point however entices me to know more.  Mainstream scholasticism passes through much peer review and up to date disciplines and seems to hover on the particulars, because every piece of evidence needs to be substantiated.  It's responsible and crafted but also ends up narrow.  The self taught scholar with some specialized knowledge can be original and game changing even though not as thorough and well rounded.

Joseph Atwill definitely is original.  Raised in Japan and attending the only English school there and drilled by Jesuits in Latin and Greek and the Bible, he brings to his endeavor a lifelong interest.  Later, having done well in the early software industry he returned to his first interest, the study of early Christianity.

In a video interview on a seemingly unrelated topic,  Atwill talks of the Russians, some years back, undermining Asiatic tribes living in Siberia by learning of their primitive roots and manipulating them in subtle ways turning them  into more compliant subjects.  The discussion is enlarged to include strategies the 'elite' employ to make the populace serfs.  The New Age doesn't always  imply a good age and the counterculture was not always so counter.  

'All you need is love' was a cop out to be spacey when your freedoms were being taken away.  The commentator added John Lennon was waking up to this when he was 'wacked.'  LSD, Pot, mushroom seeming mind enlarging drugs led to easier manipulation and malleability. I must note the commentator disagreed somewhat with this last contention.   In the meantime 'Sergeant Peppers Lonely Hearts' led to illusion and complacency and positive thinking and passivity.  Carlos Castaneda was an actor of sorts idealizing the roles of Shamans to seers when often they were magicians and manipulators of the people.  A surprising number of Bohemia and the intellectual elite were involved with the CIA.  Yes that's right.  Modern art and modern psychology all played a part in dismantling the family, isolating individuals and reducing their individual powers. Quite the conspiracy theory and Atwill seems convinced although without proof.  Even if a small percentage of this is true, it is worth noting..

While the scope of the aforementioned is quite large and hard to substantiate, the genesis began with Atwill's book 'Caesar's Messiah' describing ancient times.  Atwill' s evidence seems well researched although some of his biggest critics are from academia.  They also don't accept the historicity of Christ,  but claim Atwill  actually hurts their cause.  However, another maverick, the late Mythicist D.M. Murdoch has interviewed with him and they seemed on the same wavelength.  As stated before, the academic world scorned her efforts at first but later some leading Mythicists such as Robert Price actually acquiesced to her and her mountain of work.

Joseph Atwill's 'Caesar's Messiah' basic contention is that the Romans manipulated the Jewish scripture to create a passive religion that would allow control of the Jewish population. In those days it was not unusual for a dominant culture to alter a subject's root system of religious beliefs through slight modifications of the old belief system.  New scriptures would be written reflecting this.  They would also target certain key phrases and link them to the new scripture claiming they were a fulfillment of the old.  Hence, Christ's riding on a donkey and other key 'fulfillments' was an attempt to validate him.  
Older motifs would be repeated with a new twist and new personalities would reflect the old. Jesus reflected much of the 'concepts and locations and sequences' of Joseph and Moses from the Torah.  It is also noted how the Jews tempted God by demanding bread and were told 'man does not live by bread alone' and another time they were told not to 'tempt the Lord' and a third time after making the golden calf.  In like ways Jesus' was tempted by the devil three times, creating a subtle link between the Jews and the latter. 

From the Gospels we infer that the thief on the cross was a common criminal when the crowd chanted 'give us Barabbas.'  In actuality he was a Sicarii (zealot), who was a freedom fighter for the Jews against Roman oppression.  Christ's 'turn the other cheek' was not in line with most Jewish thinking.  The Roman's would let subjects worship anyway they would, but they had to worship Caesar also in their temple.  Later a statue of Zeus had to be displayed also.  This was too much for the Jews.  The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus recorded 'that no matter how Titus tortured the Sicarii, they refused to call him “Lord.”   The Jews worship of one God was not aligned with their worship of many..
Some Jews such as Josephus, a former Sicarii himself, became part of the Roman 'family' and betrayed his old allegiances.  He was not alone in doing this.

Atwill leads up to Roman times by historically showing how the Greeks rule over the Jews paved the way.  Some Jews rebelled such as with the Maccabees.  Some tried to remain balanced in the middle and some  adopted much of Greek culture and ways and sided with them. The pattern was repeated with Roman rule. Philo, the writer, (he tried to merge Jewish and Hellenistic values) was from such a wealthy Jewish family. His brother Julius  became the financial steward for Antonia, the mother of Emperor Claudius. Some of these wealthy families even donated money to help quell the rebellions.  I suppose life was too good.  The Jews were expecting a Messiah that would free them from bondage.  The writers of the Gospels would give them a Messiah, but with passive strings attached.

The Romans believed in fate, chance and luck.  They wanted to satirize Judaism and have Christianity succeed before their plot was discovered. There reasons were not elevated.  Atwill says bluntly it was because of 'legacy, to prove to posterity how clever they were.'  I suppose part of life is intrigue and making it interesting if survival is not slapping you in the face.  However, in this case they went very far.  He continues 'they (Gospels) actually stem from the overwrought vanity of Roman Caesars, desiring the populace  to worship them as gods.  Atwill tries to see the obvious without enlarged preconceptions.  Titus, the Emperor's Vespasian's son, showed little empathy for the Jews and in his campaign against them was merciless.  Why?  Atwill says he just didn't like them.  At some point he hurt his arm during some entanglement, and perhaps this created such distaste.  No high philosophical reasoning here.

Atwill summarizes his conclusions in stating the Gospels were not a lower class phenomenon, but the Roman imperial family effort of the Flavians.  Second, they were not written by his followers but by the intelligentsia surrounding the three Falvian emperors.  Third, they were written after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD and many events in Jesus' life were actual depictions of that war.  Finally, the purpose of Christianity was to turn a militaristic movement into a pacifist one.

It  must be noted this satirical humor was often 'black humor.'  For example, Caesars in those days were considered gods.  If Vespasian the emperor was god Titus his son was the son of god.  Atwill plays on this 'sonship' as Jesus' sonship was a construct paralleling and derivative from Titus's.  Atwill takes it a step further in that he sees certain events of Christ's life and the Gospels in general as metaphors for events in Titus's life.  Following is a partial list of these comparisons, the first recorded by Josephus on Titus' life, the second from the Gospels of the New Testament.

Start of the campaign
Titus: Describes this battle as the 'onset' of his sole command of the army.
Jesus: This is the start of the ministry of Jesus  

Sent by his father
Titus: He sent away his son Titus to Caesarea.
Jesus: Sent by his father in heaven.

His followers followed
Titus:  Entered the city the first of them all, and the others soon after him.
Jesus:  Brought their boat to shore and followed him.

Reassures troops not to be afraid
Titus: You know very well that I go into danger first, do not therefore desert me.
Jesus:  Do not  be afraid.

Reference to Chorazain
Titus: It produces the Coracin fish.
Jesus:  Woe to you Chorazain.


Presence of a Jesus
Titus:  Jesus is the leader of the rebels at the Sea of Galilee.
Jesus:  Jesus is the leader of disciples at the Sea of Galilee.

Fishing for men
Titus:  The Jews fall out of their boats 'such as were drowning in the sea...they were...caught by the vessels.
Jesus   I will make you fishers of men.

They are so cynical.  Jesus says 'you will be fishers of men.'  Mr. Atwill takes these scriptures quite literally.  When the Romans chased the Jewish rebels they had no place to run and ran into the sea and   the Romans in various vessels speared them.  Quite barbarous in description and quite twisted to even think of such a metaphor.  Atwill says he wins most debates because he interprets the Gospels just as they are, not symbolically or as metaphors.  I find his premise of retooling the Hebrew scriptures for another purpose enticing but am not equipped to disprove or prove it.  It's just another take on what happened   

In his video a viewer commented that Joseph Atwill appeared too self satisfied.  This cannot help his cause.  He weaves an intriguing tale.  Whether it is closer to art or truth remains to be seen and any judgment I have will be on hold. At the very least, one has to respect the effort.