4. Judaism Exodus and Mythicism 2. D. thru E
2. D. More on Exodus
The late D.M. Murdock, who passed away fairly recently at a young age, was a thorough researcher in many disciplines and left an impressive body of work. She would first scrutinize the evidence or historicity of a claim (which she often found boring) and once done expand and connect the dots with other mythological sources. Following are some additional discrepancies about the Exodus she wrote about in various on line commentaries and on a video with a man who calls himself the 'Ra Man.'
Ms. Murdock humorously referred to the ten plagues over the Egyptian population, which repeatedly wiped them out, and wondered why the original two or three million Hebrews just didn't stay put and overtake the few Egyptian survivors remaining.
It is further noted that Moses had two million followers, and the desert was 130 miles long, and if each person say needed a meter of space, the length of a line from the first person to the last would be 2000 kilometers. Since the sea engulfs one side of the desert, all they would have to do is march along it and they would easily reach the end of the desert.
Or, if a person or group walked and did 20 miles a day, that would take about one week. True. She also made a point that there was much movement in those days and migration. For the Hebrews to go through all they did to be delivered to a promised land might have been worth it accept for the fact that the Egyptians also controlled the promised land. They were leaving one land and its oppressors to another land with the same oppressors. These are just some common sense observations.
It was also stated in the Bible they brought hundreds of thousands of animals with them. Why did none show up in the archaeology? Also where did they find the wood in the desert to burn and sacrifice them? It was written they took with them all of the wealth from the Egyptians and Murdock and Ra Men wondered how they carried it for 40 years in the desert. It's also mentioned why they had to melt jewelry to build the golden calf if they have all these treasures with them. All these observations cast doubt to the validity of the story. Rabbi David Wolpe, a contemporary Jewish writer of some influence, said from the evidence we have it is doubtful the Exodus happened the way it was presented or if it happened at all. Earlier in the discussion it was also put forth because of so many wrong facts that it was obvious the writing took place much later than the event.
Ms. Murdock humorously referred to the ten plagues over the Egyptian population which repeatedly wiped them out and wondered why the original two or three million Hebrews just didn't stay put and overtake the few Egyptian survivors remaining.
From these observations it seems that the only way these actions could have been accomplished was through some divine intervention. The other possibility alluded to is that the story was written later and although full of inaccuracies took on a symbolic and mythical stature as discussed in the next section.
2. E. Mythicism
Evemerists hold that some kind of local king or hero or very holy person are eventually attributed god like traits and their exploits or good deeds become legendary and other worldly. Some hold that Jesus Christ is such an example. A Mythicist theorizes that in most cases for most known religions the mythologized figure was never a real person. Rather the particular personage was a localized adaptation to a universal myth and never really existed. For instance, Moses delivered the law on tablets called the Ten Commandments. But other law givers did the same. Manou of India gave the law, in Crete Minos descended down a mountain and received the sacred law from Zeus, and Mises of Egypt had stone tablets with the laws of God written. Peter Joseph in Zeitgeist I says the motif of God giving a prophet the law was repeated over and over, along with numerous other motifs.
Dr. Robert Price is a well known mythicist, who originally was skeptical of her scholarship, ended up helping to refine the professional capabilities of D.M. Murdock in her relentless independent research. Her general knowledge of languages, twenty of them, allowed her to paint with a very wide brush. Unless one is as well versed as her, it is hard to scrutinize her work. It does cast deeper roots and in some cases some doubt upon the depth and scope of other sources used in this section. I have reservations about her work not factually but in a metaphysical sense, although not delved into here. Anyhow, D.M. Murdock is a mythicist and she is the source for much of the information I use in this section.
Mythicists actually emerged in the 16th century as a field of inquiry. The scholars of the time used to observe the parallels of the Judeo Christian religions with the classic literature they had read. Mythicists see humans spiritual capacities as emerging directly from their early and continuing relationship with nature and the prime source of all nature, the sun. Hence, we have sun worship. The cycles of the seasons, the lengths of days, the heat and energy and life it gives, plus the influence on growth and crops all makes the sun a major key to our physical existence. Most of the early gods and later gods were sun gods, because the sun was the source of all life and light. We even have Sunday as a day named for the sun. Lands may differ but the sun was always the same.
Since the sun and nature had many consistencies throughout our planet, peoples' deities and customs and rituals reflected many of these characteristics. For instance the Egyptian God Horus of around 3000 BC was a sun god and giver of light and day. His enemy was Set the god of the dark and every morning Horus would battle Set and win and at night Set would win and send Horus to the underworld. Hence night and day.. Ancient man also did a lot of stargazing, and certain stars and their placements must have appeared like humans and animals and hence became anthropomorphic figures, often godlike with myths attached. The theoretical aspect of it divided the universe into 12 sections, each having a certain identity, sign, and personality characteristics. It has been described as astrotheology, a theology derived from astronomy and astrology. For example Virgo the virgin is described by a groups of stars and often these personages have a ruling planet. With Virgo it is Mercury. Zeus, the Roman ruling god, has Jupiter as a ruling planet.
Various religions, such as Judaism, actually claim to be the originators of astrology. However, one of the claims of the Mythicists is that the major religions borrowed themes from the lesser known religions, not visa versa. Accordingly successful cultures imposed their god onto other cultures and wrote their history. For instance, Dionysus' role as the wine god for wealthy traders and growers expanded eventually to a sun god with all the accompanying attributes. Joseph, in the 'Son of God...' video, shows how many of the ideas for the Ten Commandments were derived from Egyptian law. For example, 'I have not killed' becomes 'Thou shall not kill' and 'I have not told lies' becomes 'Thou shall not bear false witness' and so on. Mythicists claim much of the Judeo Christian traditions originated with the Egyptians. Justin Martyr, the Christian historian explains this away by attributing this to the devil.
Returning to Dionysus, Murdock says there are 46 similar attributes between this wine god and Moses. He was born in Egypt, saved from the waters in a small box or chest, had two mothers, went to Arabia and battled Egypt. He was considered a divine prophet and carried a stick that could change into a serpent. He fled Egypt and parted the waters and was ordered to destroy the nation. In addition, Dionysus was also a lawgiver. The law also was delivered on two tablets. Sound familiar? Needless to say, it seems as if the 'higher' gods shared similar powers. Interestingly, the Mythicists allude to earlier religions as being more playful and in touch with nature, hence the popularity of Dionysus, the wine god. Wine was a source of pleasure and also of healing. Many ideas were shared and proselytized in theaters and Phoenician plays. Ideas spread all through local cultures and their separate gods became less separate.
Murdock points to the Bronze age of around 3000 BC as somewhat peaceful compared to the Iron age of around 1000 BC. Weapons during the latter were deadlier and easier to make, paralleling a megalomania mindset. Also paralleling these developments Murdock claims is the rise of monotheism used for political purposes. If a group is united around one god with a unique identity this works to separate them from others, an interesting twist and reverse take on monotheism.
As we see many of these Mediterranean gods shared the same characteristics. The Babylonian Hammurabi goes to the mountain to get the law from a solar YWH. This is an archetype according to Murdock. His face shines when he comes down, with rays coming from his forehead upwards, as a sculpture of him portrays. Clearly he is a sun god in Mythicist thinking.
All this information is fascinating and hard to refute if one is not a scholar or even if one is. It has a wide scope. Murdock, who once was a born again Christian, now believed in a less defined universe with no absolutes. Atheism, polytheism, monotheism, mysticism are all embraced at the same time. This seems to go along with a pre-Judeo Christian mindset portrayed in Mythicists' writings, Easy going, a bit anarchistic, individualistic, closer to nature and also pleasure loving are apropos descriptions. Not discussed here but also the concept of the world being 6000 years old or 14000 years old is rejected and figures like 100,000 or 200,000 are thrown around. Older civilizations buried in the oceans with advanced civilizations are hinted at and recurrent themes that go back through these millennium.
Since this is not a scholarly writing, I feel compelled to add my bias which I believe is basic. While all these Mythicists arguments are interesting, I'd like to return to my fundamental reasoning. On this earth there is really no basic proof for anything. We can only reasonably assume but we can't prove. All is subject to delusion and illusion. Nothing here is definite. ````
In most circumstances the Mythicists' reasoning has validity. However, in the largest sense I feel falls short.. How so? As alluded to earlier, nothing on this plane can be proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Even so, if there is a God and he is God, he will get through to us if he desires, flawed world and messangers to do so not withstanding. If God is God and this is accepted, his truth has to be conveyed somehow. The Bible is flawed, people are flawed, nature is flawed, time is flawed, but still, there is a God and he has a right to be known.
With this being said, God might have used myths to portray real truths that at some point had some real base and representation in the realities of living in this world. Mythicism, although impactful, cannot be taken as the ultimate say so. Holes and gaps might surface within it. Or it might maintain some integrity but become shelved as just 'not that important.' Ultimately, if one believes in one God, a god in charge, a head man, a theory like Mythicism can only go so far, and rightfully so.
2. D. More on Exodus
The late D.M. Murdock, who passed away fairly recently at a young age, was a thorough researcher in many disciplines and left an impressive body of work. She would first scrutinize the evidence or historicity of a claim (which she often found boring) and once done expand and connect the dots with other mythological sources. Following are some additional discrepancies about the Exodus she wrote about in various on line commentaries and on a video with a man who calls himself the 'Ra Man.'
Ms. Murdock humorously referred to the ten plagues over the Egyptian population, which repeatedly wiped them out, and wondered why the original two or three million Hebrews just didn't stay put and overtake the few Egyptian survivors remaining.
It is further noted that Moses had two million followers, and the desert was 130 miles long, and if each person say needed a meter of space, the length of a line from the first person to the last would be 2000 kilometers. Since the sea engulfs one side of the desert, all they would have to do is march along it and they would easily reach the end of the desert.
Or, if a person or group walked and did 20 miles a day, that would take about one week. True. She also made a point that there was much movement in those days and migration. For the Hebrews to go through all they did to be delivered to a promised land might have been worth it accept for the fact that the Egyptians also controlled the promised land. They were leaving one land and its oppressors to another land with the same oppressors. These are just some common sense observations.
It was also stated in the Bible they brought hundreds of thousands of animals with them. Why did none show up in the archaeology? Also where did they find the wood in the desert to burn and sacrifice them? It was written they took with them all of the wealth from the Egyptians and Murdock and Ra Men wondered how they carried it for 40 years in the desert. It's also mentioned why they had to melt jewelry to build the golden calf if they have all these treasures with them. All these observations cast doubt to the validity of the story. Rabbi David Wolpe, a contemporary Jewish writer of some influence, said from the evidence we have it is doubtful the Exodus happened the way it was presented or if it happened at all. Earlier in the discussion it was also put forth because of so many wrong facts that it was obvious the writing took place much later than the event.
Ms. Murdock humorously referred to the ten plagues over the Egyptian population which repeatedly wiped them out and wondered why the original two or three million Hebrews just didn't stay put and overtake the few Egyptian survivors remaining.
From these observations it seems that the only way these actions could have been accomplished was through some divine intervention. The other possibility alluded to is that the story was written later and although full of inaccuracies took on a symbolic and mythical stature as discussed in the next section.
2. E. Mythicism
Evemerists hold that some kind of local king or hero or very holy person are eventually attributed god like traits and their exploits or good deeds become legendary and other worldly. Some hold that Jesus Christ is such an example. A Mythicist theorizes that in most cases for most known religions the mythologized figure was never a real person. Rather the particular personage was a localized adaptation to a universal myth and never really existed. For instance, Moses delivered the law on tablets called the Ten Commandments. But other law givers did the same. Manou of India gave the law, in Crete Minos descended down a mountain and received the sacred law from Zeus, and Mises of Egypt had stone tablets with the laws of God written. Peter Joseph in Zeitgeist I says the motif of God giving a prophet the law was repeated over and over, along with numerous other motifs.
Dr. Robert Price is a well known mythicist, who originally was skeptical of her scholarship, ended up helping to refine the professional capabilities of D.M. Murdock in her relentless independent research. Her general knowledge of languages, twenty of them, allowed her to paint with a very wide brush. Unless one is as well versed as her, it is hard to scrutinize her work. It does cast deeper roots and in some cases some doubt upon the depth and scope of other sources used in this section. I have reservations about her work not factually but in a metaphysical sense, although not delved into here. Anyhow, D.M. Murdock is a mythicist and she is the source for much of the information I use in this section.
Mythicists actually emerged in the 16th century as a field of inquiry. The scholars of the time used to observe the parallels of the Judeo Christian religions with the classic literature they had read. Mythicists see humans spiritual capacities as emerging directly from their early and continuing relationship with nature and the prime source of all nature, the sun. Hence, we have sun worship. The cycles of the seasons, the lengths of days, the heat and energy and life it gives, plus the influence on growth and crops all makes the sun a major key to our physical existence. Most of the early gods and later gods were sun gods, because the sun was the source of all life and light. We even have Sunday as a day named for the sun. Lands may differ but the sun was always the same.
Since the sun and nature had many consistencies throughout our planet, peoples' deities and customs and rituals reflected many of these characteristics. For instance the Egyptian God Horus of around 3000 BC was a sun god and giver of light and day. His enemy was Set the god of the dark and every morning Horus would battle Set and win and at night Set would win and send Horus to the underworld. Hence night and day.. Ancient man also did a lot of stargazing, and certain stars and their placements must have appeared like humans and animals and hence became anthropomorphic figures, often godlike with myths attached. The theoretical aspect of it divided the universe into 12 sections, each having a certain identity, sign, and personality characteristics. It has been described as astrotheology, a theology derived from astronomy and astrology. For example Virgo the virgin is described by a groups of stars and often these personages have a ruling planet. With Virgo it is Mercury. Zeus, the Roman ruling god, has Jupiter as a ruling planet.
Various religions, such as Judaism, actually claim to be the originators of astrology. However, one of the claims of the Mythicists is that the major religions borrowed themes from the lesser known religions, not visa versa. Accordingly successful cultures imposed their god onto other cultures and wrote their history. For instance, Dionysus' role as the wine god for wealthy traders and growers expanded eventually to a sun god with all the accompanying attributes. Joseph, in the 'Son of God...' video, shows how many of the ideas for the Ten Commandments were derived from Egyptian law. For example, 'I have not killed' becomes 'Thou shall not kill' and 'I have not told lies' becomes 'Thou shall not bear false witness' and so on. Mythicists claim much of the Judeo Christian traditions originated with the Egyptians. Justin Martyr, the Christian historian explains this away by attributing this to the devil.
Returning to Dionysus, Murdock says there are 46 similar attributes between this wine god and Moses. He was born in Egypt, saved from the waters in a small box or chest, had two mothers, went to Arabia and battled Egypt. He was considered a divine prophet and carried a stick that could change into a serpent. He fled Egypt and parted the waters and was ordered to destroy the nation. In addition, Dionysus was also a lawgiver. The law also was delivered on two tablets. Sound familiar? Needless to say, it seems as if the 'higher' gods shared similar powers. Interestingly, the Mythicists allude to earlier religions as being more playful and in touch with nature, hence the popularity of Dionysus, the wine god. Wine was a source of pleasure and also of healing. Many ideas were shared and proselytized in theaters and Phoenician plays. Ideas spread all through local cultures and their separate gods became less separate.
Murdock points to the Bronze age of around 3000 BC as somewhat peaceful compared to the Iron age of around 1000 BC. Weapons during the latter were deadlier and easier to make, paralleling a megalomania mindset. Also paralleling these developments Murdock claims is the rise of monotheism used for political purposes. If a group is united around one god with a unique identity this works to separate them from others, an interesting twist and reverse take on monotheism.
As we see many of these Mediterranean gods shared the same characteristics. The Babylonian Hammurabi goes to the mountain to get the law from a solar YWH. This is an archetype according to Murdock. His face shines when he comes down, with rays coming from his forehead upwards, as a sculpture of him portrays. Clearly he is a sun god in Mythicist thinking.
All this information is fascinating and hard to refute if one is not a scholar or even if one is. It has a wide scope. Murdock, who once was a born again Christian, now believed in a less defined universe with no absolutes. Atheism, polytheism, monotheism, mysticism are all embraced at the same time. This seems to go along with a pre-Judeo Christian mindset portrayed in Mythicists' writings, Easy going, a bit anarchistic, individualistic, closer to nature and also pleasure loving are apropos descriptions. Not discussed here but also the concept of the world being 6000 years old or 14000 years old is rejected and figures like 100,000 or 200,000 are thrown around. Older civilizations buried in the oceans with advanced civilizations are hinted at and recurrent themes that go back through these millennium.
Since this is not a scholarly writing, I feel compelled to add my bias which I believe is basic. While all these Mythicists arguments are interesting, I'd like to return to my fundamental reasoning. On this earth there is really no basic proof for anything. We can only reasonably assume but we can't prove. All is subject to delusion and illusion. Nothing here is definite. ````
In most circumstances the Mythicists' reasoning has validity. However, in the largest sense I feel falls short.. How so? As alluded to earlier, nothing on this plane can be proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Even so, if there is a God and he is God, he will get through to us if he desires, flawed world and messangers to do so not withstanding. If God is God and this is accepted, his truth has to be conveyed somehow. The Bible is flawed, people are flawed, nature is flawed, time is flawed, but still, there is a God and he has a right to be known.
With this being said, God might have used myths to portray real truths that at some point had some real base and representation in the realities of living in this world. Mythicism, although impactful, cannot be taken as the ultimate say so. Holes and gaps might surface within it. Or it might maintain some integrity but become shelved as just 'not that important.' Ultimately, if one believes in one God, a god in charge, a head man, a theory like Mythicism can only go so far, and rightfully so.